and some of the people all the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time." Abraham Lincoln

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/12/04/obama-harvard-poll-millenials/3868629/

Ya, my kids and all their friends in that demographic want single payer health care and think Obama sold out to corporate America and is too far to the right.

That's why the right wingers have no alternative to the ACA...the ACA was the right wing alternative to single payer, so now they've got nothing.

Well, nothing but whining, and whiners.

Fish on...

Todd

Infuckingdeed.

Pretty tricky move for a "socialist".

It's that same way he hides his anti-Capitalism behind an exploding stock market, higher corporate profits, and higher incomes.

He's pretty tricky for a Socialist Kenyan Nigerian Marxist.

Fish on...

Todd

Lol. So true.

If we had a Republican in the presidency and the same economic numbers they would be one of the greatest presidents ever according to the repooplicans.

It isn't what you accomplish, it is what party you are affiliated with.

Except if we had a Republican in office we would have lower corporate profits, less income, and a lower stock market, and a slower economy.

Otherwise, exactly the same. Just ask Hank, he votes Republican because they are "better for the economy"...LOL!

Fish on...

Todd

Corporate profits are up because business are not hiring and hoarding cash forcing the avg worker to do more . How is that a dem value? If the republicans had let the bankers off Scott free and rewarded them with free money and regulations that allow them to gamble with deposits the left would be enraged beyond belief. If the re pubs had purchased a trillions in bonds to make companies and the 1% even wealthier what would the dens response be. If the republicans had run on a platform of rebuilding the middle class and instead took a big steaming diarrhea on their heads what would the dens say. It would be hard to figure out which president has done more for Wall Street and less for the middle class than Obama. Where is the outrage? Obama care was designed to punish higher wage earners in favor of lower wage earners. It has achieved the opposite for everyone but the lowest 7% on the economy.

This country is in the shitter and on its way out because the left accepts anything done under the democratic banner and the right does the same. If anyone believes for one second that things are going well and will all work out in the end with this political system and a such a stupid populace they are fools.

It's not a "value"...it's exactly what happens every time there is a Democrat in office.

"Holding cash" doens't make profits go up, dumbass..."holding cash" means you don't spend your profits.

Just like Hank, if you are voting for the GOP because it is "better for the economy" then you are a 100% dumshit, not to mention completely wrong.

Fish on...

Todd

Same store sales are where for every company you claim to have higher profits. Their profits are higher because expenses are lower. If expenses are lower you are sitting on cash.

The value of your dollar in terms of spending power has gone down 39% since 2000. Explain how that is a benefit to the middle class? I said neither side is good for the economy and if you think business sitting on cash , not hiring and an over inflated stock market because of Fed intervention is good or will end well you are a fool.

It's not just corporate profits that always go up during Democratic administrations, and it's not just the stock market, either. It's also personal incomes, and the overall growth of the economy.

Always. Every time.

If you are voting for the GOP because you think they are better for the economy, the stock market, personal incomes (including your own), or corporate profits, then you are the fool.

If you are voting for the GOP based on their social policies, then you're not only a fool, you are an asshole.

If you are voting for the GOP because of a Negro Kenyan Nigerian Socialist Marxist Muslim, then you are not only a fool and an asshole, but a TeaParty moron to boot.

Fish on...

Todd

Hank, I already showed you the "surprising" writeups on Fox, Bloomberg, and all the other right wing rags talking about how the economy, and all the rest, is better when the Democrats are in charge.

Your head is up your ass, then stuck in the sand, and you know it...you just can't help that knee jerk reaction to hit "GOP" every time you vote.

You are a fool voting for something that directly counters your reason for voting for it...and you know it. That's why you are a fool.

If you didn't know it, well, then you'd be an ignoramus...the information is out there and easily accessible, and has been shown to you.

You do know it...that's why you are a fool. Or an idiot.

Take your pick.

Fish on...

Todd

Quit talking about the GOP and Show the class this personal income growth under this admin. Then show the class why the stock market is where it is at and how that benefits them in the long run. Show the class how a reduction in spending power combined with no wage growth for 10 years benefits them. The dens are just as bad as the GOP and people that think otherwise are what's wrong with this country.

A 2001 F350 fully loaded pick up was $32000 in 2001. The same truck cost $55,000 today. Has the average Boeing works comp gone up 70% since 2001?

You guys just keep livin' in the dream...next you'll be telling me that the GOP embraces "Christian" values, too...right?

Right.

Fish on...

Todd

You are the one living the dream telling people how great things are under dem rule with zero stats to back up the claim. The tea part has nothing on your zealotry.

Just like Hank, you like to ignore whatever is being said and instead insert your opinion of what I am saying, or thinking. Nowhere up there does it say anything of the sort...all it says is that if you are voting for the GOP because any of those economic factors are better under a GOP administration then you are a fool, because you are wrong now, and it has always been wrong if you think that.

That is all.

You can justify it any way you want, just know that you are wrong if you think you are voting for better economic policy, stronger corporate profits, better personal incomes, or a stronger stock market by voting for the GOP.

You are voting against those things if those are the things that lead you to the ballot box.

It's nothing new for GOP voters to vote in direct contradiction to the goals that they claim to support. It is standard GOP voter action to say they want those things, and then to vote for the party that is not as good at any of those things.

Just want to continue to point out to you clowns that if you believe that voting for the GOP will help those goals, then you are wrong. You are wrong now, you have always been wrong, and based on current opinion, you will continue to be wrong.

Fish on...

Todd

That was a convincing argument. I'm going to vote republican from now on.

Just like those you accuse you vote for the same things under a different banner and call it good. Both teams suck and if you cannot see it it's your problem.

I'd attempt a clever response, but the cat has my tongue.

I can see that both teams suck, and not surprisingly, you're saying that as just another strawman argument to fight at.

Here's what I said:

1. The stock market, economic growth, personal incomes, and corporate profits always do better under Democratic administrations. Always...and it is easily verifiable.

2. If you vote based on those issues, and vote for the GOP, then you are a clown...unless, of course, you are against the stock market going up, economic growth in the USA, increased personal incomes, and corporate profits.

Is that too hard for you to understand?

Fish on...

Todd

<-----------------------

'nuf said.

BS. As I said before the stock market is up because of money printing . If you think that's good you are stupid. Corporate profits are up because the companies are not hiring nor investing in growth levers if you think that is better you are stupid. Personal incomes have not grown in 10 years and to add insult to injury the buying power of those incomes is 39% less than it was in 2000 if you think that is better you are stupid . Your historical comparison does no one any good because it is a sophist argument and simply not true this time.
Obama has completely abandoned the middle class.

If a democrat runs for president and can fix all that is wrong I would vote for him . I could careless about the party.

Then do your research. Those things have done better under every Democrat, and have done worse under every Republican.

You can be like Hank, or like Slabby, and not give two schits about anything other than voting for the GOP, but don't vote for the GOP if you care about the stock market, economic growth, personal incomes, or corporate profits.

If you do, then you are voting against what you want...and like I said, that is not a particularly rare occurrence, people do it all the time...but they're usually idiots who don't care about the truth, or ignorants who don't bother even trying to find out what it is.

Fish on...

Todd

If you really do not care which party you vote for, but only which one is better at economics, then here are some places to start:

http://www.presidentialdata.org/

Since World War 2, 55,794,000 jobs have been created under Democratic Presidents, while 38,256,000 jobs have been created under Republican Presidents

Jobs have grown an average of twice as fast annually under Democratic Presidents than under Republican Presidents
Nine of the last ten recessions have occurred under Republican presidents.

Republican presidents' deficits are twice as large as Democrats' and nearly twice as high as a percent of GDP.

GDP grows 52% faster under Democratic presidents.
Businesses invest more than two times as much under Democratic presidents.

This data is compiled by offsetting a President's Administration by a year to account for the fact that the Federal budget for any given fiscal year is drafted and passed in the previous calendar year. For example, 1993's budget was drafted and passed in 1992, during the Bush administration, so that year is ascribed to President Bush, even though President Clinton was in office in 1993.

One exception has been made: 2009's ARRA was drafted and passed by the Obama administration, creating $114 billion of Federal outlays for 2009. That amount has been subtracted from President Bush II's 2009 budget/deficit total and added to President Obama's.

Since World War II . . .

Almost twice as many jobs are created per year under Democratic Presidents than Republican Presidents (1.8 million jobs under Democratic Presidents versus one million jobs under Republican Presidents.)

The deficit under Republican Presidents has been more than twice as large as the under Democratic Presidents. In dollars, Republican Presidents have contributed nearly $4 trillion more to the national debt than Democratic Presidents.
GDP growth has been 52% higher under Democratic Presidents.
Business Investment Growth has been 165% higher under Democratic Presidents.
Unemployment has been 23% higher under Republican Presidents.
Average increase in weekly earnings have been 107.5% higher under Democratic Presidents

Nine of the last ten recessions have occurred under Republican Presidents (www.nber.org/cycles.html)

JOB GROWTH

Democratic Presidents have created 17.5 million more jobs than Republican Presidents, and jobs have grown nearly twice as fast under Democratic Presidents as under Republican Presidents.

Total jobs created under Democratic Presidents: 55,794,000
Total jobs created under Republican Presidents: 38,256,000

Average jobs gained per year under Democratic Presidents: 1,830,000
Average jobs gained per year under Republican Presidents: 1,063,000

GDP GROWTH

Real Gross Domestic Product growth under Democratic Presidents has been 52% higher than during Republican Presidents.

Average real GDP growth under Democratic Presidents: +4%

Average real GDP growth under Republican Presidents: +2.63%

BUSINESS INVESTMENT GROWTH

Real business investment growth under Democratic Presidents has been 165% higher than under Republican Presidents.

Average growth under Democratic Presidents: +6.3%

Average growth under Republican Presidents: +2.76%

FEDERAL BUDGET DEFICITS

Federal budget deficits under Republican Presidents are 100% higher than under Democratic Presidents (as a percentage of GDP, Republican Presidents have been 90% higher than Democratic Presidents).

Total Democratic Budget Deficit: $3,887.6 billion

Total Republican Budget Deficit: $7,807.2 billion

Average deficit under Democratic Presidents: 2.1% of GDP

Average deficit under Republican Presidents: 3.98% of GDP

UNEMPLOYMENT

Unemployment under Republican Presidents has been 23% higher than under Democratic Presidents.

Average unemployment under Democratic Presidents: 5.06%

Average unemployment under Republican Presidents: 6.23%

GROWTH IN SPENDING

Federal Spending has increased twice as fast under Republican Presidents than under Democratic Presidents

Democratic Presidents' annual spending increased by an average of $35.3 billion per year

Republican Presidents' annual spending increased by an average of $70 billion per year

BALANCE OF TRADE

Trade deficits under Republican Presidents have been 116% higher than under Democratic Presidents.

Total trade deficit under Democratic Administrations (in millions): $2,695,994

Total trade deficit under Republican Administrations (in millions): $5,828,385

STOCK MARKET

The Stock Market under Democratic Presidents has grown 200% faster under Democratic Presidents than under Republican Presidents.

Average yearly growth in Stock Market returns under Democratic Presidents: +1.92%

Average yearly growth in Stock Market returns under Republican Presidents: +0.64%

www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/03/23/b...omic-terms.html

For more detailed information and specific sources, click on the topics above. You can download the full document here. Footnotes for all documents can be downloaded here.

Most Sources from: Statistical Abstract of the United States; 1992-2011 Economic Reports of the President, Congressional Budget Office, Bureau of Labor Statistics, all data since World War II.

**************

That's just for starters.

Go to the link provided, and you can not only read all of that stuff there, but you can see all the citations to where the information came from.

HINT: The information did not come from the DNC, the RNC, FoxNews, or MSNBC. It came from direct sources.

Fish on...

Todd

A sophist argument that does not translate down to the middle class in any form in the short term and gets worse the further out you take the data. Obama is the single most destructive force the middle class has ever seen and it is shameful to defend him. On top of that he is the best president Wall Street has ever known at the expense of all of us now and in the foreseeable future.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

More.

You guys don't have to use facts, or the truth, when forming your opinions...like I said above, plenty of idiots ignore the facts and the truth, and plenty prefer to remain ignorant by not even wondering about the facts or truth.

You will not be alone in being so profoundly wrong.

Fish on...

Todd

From Business Insider:

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-increased-the-debt-2012-9



Common theme, every election cycle...this is the truth, and the GOP tells you exactly the opposite.

That's what most people call "lying"...unless they like being lied to...then they call it "Good Republican Strategy".

Fish on...

Todd

There are literally dozens of articles on the InterWebz outlining all those things, and they are brutally consistent: the GOP sucks at everything economic other than stuffing the pockets of the rich.

This conclusion is drawn by FoxNews online, Fox Business News online, Bloomberg, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and dozens of other sources.

It's not new information, and it's not surprising information...and it's not surprising that 45% of the voters in this country take it at face value when the GOP tells you that they are the "fiscally responsible party", and votes for them in direct contravention of not only their own well being, but in direct contradiction to the truth.

You guys can carry on doing so, just know that you are incredibly wrong when you do.

Fish on...

Todd

And how about the rest of the story?

The chart, which, notably, was produced by the Office Of The Democratic Leader, shows the amount the U.S. debt expanded under each President since Reagan. It shows that the debt increased far more on a percentage basis under Republican Presidents Reagan, Bush, and Bush than under Democratic Presidents Clinton and Obama.

However, for several reasons, the chart is not particularly meaningful, as the myth-busters at Snopes.com make clear:

Two of the Republican Presidents--Reagan and Bush 2--had two terms, and in an economy that is running at a deficit, you'll accumulate more debt over two terms than one. Importantly, of course, Democratic President Clinton had two terms, and he accumulated the least debt of any of these Presidents.
Incoming Presidents inherit the spending and taxing policies of their predecessors, as well as their economies. So a lot of what happens early in Presidential terms should be laid at the feet of the predecessor.
Congress plays a big role in spending and debt creation.
Debt analyses are most relevant on a debt-to-GDP basis. This chart shows the change in debt in absolute dollars.
Percentage changes are less meaningful when dealing with small numbers than they are with big numbers. Bush 2.
The chart only goes through the end of 2010.

So, yes, the chart is basically accurate, but it's not particularly meaningful.

If you want to assign blame for our huge current debt and deficit problem, read the article below.

SEE ALSO: The Truth About Who's Responsible For Our Massive Debt And Deficit Problem

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/who-increased-the-debt-2012-9#ixzz2mYlz4jHi

There are dozens of articles and sources out there on all the topics surrounding the growth of the economy, the growth of personal incomes, the growth of corporate profits, and the growth of the stock market, and all of them say the exact same thing.

Rev, you, too, can completely ignore the facts if you like...just know that when you pull the lever for "GOP" you are voting in direct contradiction to what you profess to believe in...fiscal policies that benefit the USA and its citizens.

As noted above, you won't be the only one doing it.

Fish on...

Todd

There's nothing more to say...until one of you clowns starts another thread about how great the GOP is on fiscal policy...then I'll remind you again that you are talking out your ass.

The GOP has always sucked at fiscal policy, every actual news source or direct source confirms it, and since they are continuing to sell the exact same failed policies over and over again, there is no reason to think that they won't continue to suck at fiscal policy.

Fish on...

Todd

Hank, ignore the facts all you want...this is America, and if you want to purposely be an ignorant fool you can do that.

Fish on...

Todd

It took me a few minutes, but now I understand this thread. He who hurls the greatest number of high quality insults at the guy across the street wins.

And the win goes to Toddster, by a country mile. And congrats to all you runners up.

Well, when it comes to being offensive Todd is simply peerless.

Determining the loser is easier. If you've got Carl Rove on your side, you lose... game over.

The biggest loser is anyone that dismisses anyone out of hand because they call they are liberal , conservative, libertarian ,fat , skinny , female, homosexual or any color. We are too short on good ideas to fix this problem to be foolish enough to limit our options.

LOL... I knew you'd be offended by that!

TJ Hits a homer!

He can't begin to match KK or Reefer.

Did Hank admit to being a ignorant fool ???????

No, but he should.

Hank, besides ignoring the obvious fact...that personal income growth, corporate profits, the stock market, and the economy all do better under Democratic Administrations...

Always

...you want to whine about how it is under Obama?

If it isn't going up under Obama, does that mean that you will continue to vote in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to the past many decades of evidence that shows that those things are ALWAYS worse under Republican Administrations, anyway, even though you profess to vote GOP because of the "economy"?

What if those things are continuing to go up under Obama, after going down during the entire Bush Administration?

Will you then concede that not only are Democratic Administratons always...

ALWAYS

...better for the economy, stock market, personal incomes, and corporate profits, and that you have been wrong all along to vote GOP for the "economy"?

Something tells me no, you'll continue to do it anyway...because you are a complete and total dumbass partisan who has no interest in the economy, personal incomes, corporate incomes, or the stock market...you only have an interest in voting for Republicans.

Am I right?

Yes I am.

Fish on...

Todd

Personal Income growth under President Obama:



http://www.multpl.com/us-income-per-capita-growth

You'll note that since 2009...the end of the Bush Administration...that personal incomes have risen consistently and sharply, right up until today.

That is the one you keep harping on...and there it is.

I'll admit that telling you the obvious over and over again while you stuck your head in the sand, and in your ass, over and over again was mostly so that you'd keep asking the same stupid question over, and over, and over, and over...

What about under this Administration? I don't care about the last 80 years, I only care about the last five years!

Well, there ya go. After an overall decline in personal incomes under the Bush Administration, they have been going straight up the past five years.

Satisifed?

Do you now admit that not only are Democratic Administrations always...

ALWAYS

...better for the stock market, personal incomes, corporate profits, and the economy...

ALWAYS

...but that the "ALWAYS" also includes this current Administration?

No, you won't...and why?

Because you don't care about facts, or the truth.

You care only about being a Republican, and voting GOP party line...even when it is not only in direct contradiction to your stated reason for voting GOP...fiscal responsibility and the economy...but is in direct contradiction to your "reasoning" in this entire topic.

Right?

Fish on...

Todd

http://bber.unm.edu/econ/us-pci.htm

2012 $42,693
2011 $41,560
2010 $39,791
2009 $38,637
2008 $40,947
2007 $39,506

Those are per capita incomes for the United States of America.

You can see how they have gone up consistently every single year under President Obama.

Satisfied?

Still feel the urge to vote in direct contradiction to the facts and your stated goals?

Of course you do...just realize that you are wrong, and worse, being a dumbshit when you do...because you know better, but do it anyway.

Fish on...

Todd

Please, Hank...pretty please...with sugar on top.

Please, please, please, please, please...now ask me about per capita GDP under President Obama.

Please tell me again how it's gone down, just like personal incomes (LOL!), and that's why you will continue to vote for utterly failed GOP policies.

Please, PLEASE, say it...just one more time.

Do it.

Now that we've got stock market, economy, and personal incomes out of the way...not only always better under Democrats, but better under Obama, too...tell me how per capita GDP is really the only important thing, that you can ignore all the rest...LOL!...but you just have to hang your hat on per capita GDP because it's gone down under Obama.

Please say it.

Fish on...

Todd

And Rev, Joad, and the rest...you, too, feel free to chime in on how you vote GOP for "the economy" when Democrats are better at:

The Stock Market
Corporate Profits
Personal Incomes
The Economy

...every time, up to and including under President Obama.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. It's OK to concede all those things and vote GOP for some other reason...but if you have some other reason I'd love to hear that, too.

Come on, Hank...say it! You've been saying it all along...just say it ONE MORE TIME.

Tell me how per capita GDP is going down under Obama.

One more time...just do it.

Don't go look it up, or find any facts...you've ignored them all along already, not just over the course of this thread but over the course of your entire adult life.

Don't start looking up facts now...just say it, one more time.

"What about per capita GDP under Obama?"

Do it.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. You're a pussy if you don't...you've already done it plenty of times, what's one more?

Sophist drivel. Obama himself in an interview in sept admitted that 95% of the income growth went to the 1% during his tenure. He also admitted that the median household income has dropped $4000 since 2000. And to top it off their spending power dropped by 39% in the same period. We spent what 3 trillion to prop up wall st and give 95% of the income to the 1%. Tell us again how that is good for the middle class? Let's not play the " I can prove my sophist point with meaningless charts game" let's go real world . Again a $32k pickup in 2001 cost $55k today. How many people have seen their income go up at that same rate? Food is 39% higher , gas has doubled. For argument sake I will give you the point that the dem admins win in all those areas statistically. How does that help anyone today and how has that helped anyone but the 1% the past 6 years. All I see a severe case of a pot (d) calling a kettle black with a pointless argument.

Joad, that's ok to feel that way...just remember when you go to vote that if you vote GOP for "the economy" you are voting in direct contradiction to your own stated desires.

The facts are indisputable.

Over time Democratic Administrations always result in:

1. better stock market performance
2. better economic growth
3. better personal incomes, and
4. better corporate profits.

Those are easy facts to look up, and they are indisputable.

It is also easy to look up this fact:

They have continued to improve under President Obama.

Fish on...

Todd

I feel no need to convince you of the truth...the truth is the truth, no matter wheter you want to believe it or not...but I do want to make sure that you clowns know that you are wrong, and intentionally and purposely wrong, when you vote GOP for the "economy".

You have no excuse but to know it, and know it well, that you are acting stupidly.

Fish on...

Todd

Come on, Hank...one more issue to clear up for you.

What about per capita GDP under THIS administration?

Come on, man...ask me, ask me one more time.

No need to look it up, you already know "the truth", right? I mean you've been saying it all along.

Say it one more time, you pussy.

Fish on...

Todd

Tell that to the 11.5 % unemployed. Tell that to the 10 millon that have dropped out of the labor force. Tell that the the 45 million on food stamps . Tell that to the 2 million that lost their homes and the countless millions that are upside down. Tell that to the 50% of new college grads that cannot find full time jobs. Tell that to the largest population in history of people under 28 still living at home because they cannot afford to move out. It will be easy because it's the same thing the media is doing along with this admin.

It's ok Hank...you would vote for the GOP if they advocated for eating babies.

You've been shown thoughout this entire thread the indisputable fact...if you vote for the GOP based on "the economy", then you are a complete and utter fool.

I've shown you the indisputable facts...you've shown you are a complete and utter fool.

Gonna ask about the per capita GDP? Come on, you pussy...you asked me about repeatedly above, so it must be going down under Obama, right?

Come one...ask me one more time...and then I'll show you that you are completely wrong on that one, too.

Just like on all the rest of this topic...the Democrats are better at every aspect of the economy, not just over the past 80 years but over the Obama Administration, too, just like all the rest...and if you vote in contradiction to that, but profess to do it for "the economy", then you are an idiot.

You'd be ignorant if you never bothered to look up the facts, or just took it at face value when those clowns in the House talk about "the economy", or watch FoxNews and listen to them talk about the economy and think it's true...but once you know the truth, and continue to deny it, you are no longer ignorant...

You are an idiot. Stupid, partisan, wrong...and an idiot.

Fish on...

Todd

Like I said above, I don't care whether you embrace the truth or not...the facts are indisputable and if you want to purposely and aggressively be a dumbshit, that's your right as an American.

Congratulations

You can keep moving the ball, or making up new factors to consider, or do whatever you want...blame the cold weather on Obama, so vote for the GOP on "the economy".

Just remember...you are an idiot if you do so because every single economic indicator has shown that Democrats, including Obama, are better at it...and better for us individually, better for our businesses, and better for our country's economic well being.

Vote GOP because you don't like brown people, or because you think Obama is a Nigerian Kenyan Marxist Socialist Nazi who will steal your guns and bacon...it's a free world, you can do that if you want...but don't vote GOP on the economy, unless by voting on the economy you mean "voting against the economic well being of all of us and our country"...in which case you should vote GOP.

Fish on...

Todd

The nerve....lol

You're a clown, Hank, and a pussy...ask me again about that all important GDP. Do it.

I already showed you that you were wrong about:

1. the stock market
2. the economy
3. corporate profits
4. personal incomes

You ignored those and told me that it didn't matter, because under THIS administration they weren't...which, of course, I showed you they were.

You were completely wrong.

Then you repeatedly asked about that all important per capita GDP, the be all end all that trumped all the rest...

But now you won't ask me about it one more time...because you are wrong on that one, too.

Like I said several times, I don't care if you want to have your head up your ass and be in total denial of the obvious, indisputable, and easily verifiable facts...you are so in denial that you will never embrace the truth, no matter how easy it is to verify.

I just want you to remember that when you go to vote next that you are voting direcly in contradiction to your own economic well being, the economic well being of those "job creating" corporations, and the economic well being of our country, and you are doing it when you know that it is indisputable that you are doing so.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Don't be a pussy...ask me about the per capita GDP under THIS administration, like you did all those times before. Do it, come on...one more chance for you to be wrong and idiotic again.

I should say I'm surprised that you would go out of your way to show how wrong and idiotic you are again...but I'm not, you've done it this entire thread, and you'll continue to do it when you vote for the GOP on "the economy", won't you?



You can clearly see here that since GWB tanked it, who you voted for twice on "the economy", Obama has been consistently and clearly raising the per capita GDP.

You can see in this next one that the tank that your economic whiz GWB put us in has caused a long term downward trend in GDP growth, but since he tanked it the GDP has steeply risen...under not just a Democratic Administration, but under THIS Democratic Administration, the one you think it didn't go up under.

When economic genius GWB left office know what our GDP was growing at?

MINUS 5%.

Minus.

It is now growing at a rate 6% higher than that, and a couple of years ago was growing at a rate nearly 8% higher than that.

Good thing you and your brain trust voted for the GOP on "the economy", eh? Thanks for your help in killing our economy.



Are those charts too hard to understand for an economic genius like yourself? Here's one that's even easier to see what happened, and what is happening now:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-per-capita

[img:center]http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/united-states-gdp-per-capita.png?s=usanygdppcapkd[/img]

Thanks, at least, for finally asking the question one more time...even if it made you look stupid...again.

You are no longer a pussy, but continue to be an idiot if you vote GOP based on "the economy".

Fish on...

Todd

Unfortunately that last one won't show up as a graph in the post...you can just click on it and the chart will open up...it looks just like the rest, GDP tanked thanks to economic GOP policies, then has steadily and consistently risen...and unlike your sad attempt to somehow call a rise in GDP a falling GDP, it shows it up thru this year, not just up thru 2012, and this year it has gone up even more.

Thanks for your help.

Now get out there and vote on "the economy"

Fish on...

Todd

So this is what we've got now:

1. Historically the stock market has always performed better under Democratic administrations than under GOP administrations, and it has continued to do so under President Obama.

2. Historically corporate profits have always performed better under Democratic administrations than they have under GOP administrations, and have continued to do so under President Obama.

3. Historically personal incomes have increased under Democratic Administrations better than they have under Republican administrations, and have continued to exactly that under President Obama.

4. Historically the economy has grown more and faster under Democratic administrations compared to GOP administrations, and it has continued to do so under President Obama.

5. The GDP, and per capita GDP, have historically grown more and faster under Democratic administrations as compared to Republican administrations, and are continuing to do so right now under President Obama.

If you vote for the GOP based on "the economy" you are doing yourself, and the country, a grave disservice.

Plus, you're an idiot.

Fish on...

Todd

I do vote for Democrats on the economy, and I have all the facts to back me up on it...why it's better for all of us, and our country.

Why do you vote for the GOP?

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. "Nerve" is what it takes to vote for the GOP on the economy, when it is so easy to verify that they are terrible for the economy and having them run it hurts people, businesses, and the country. That takes nerve. It takes brains to vote for those who help people, businesses, and the country.

I don't expect you to listen, Hank...as a matter of fact, I expect you to ignore reality and continue to vote for the GOP on "the economy"...the same as I expect from the other right wing partisan hacks here, in spite of all evidence and facts proving that they are hurting themselves, businesses, and the country.

Fish on...

Todd

Soaring health costs are killing the middle class...Republicans are against reforming health care, even when the Democratic reforms being implemented now were created by the Heritage Foundation and were the Republican response to single payer.

Income inequality is killing the middle class, and is the direct result of tax cuts for the rich and trickle down economics, the bulkwards of the Republican economic policies that cause Republicans to be worse on the stock market, personal incomes, corporate profits, the economy, and your favorite, Hank, the GDP.

Bankruptcy reform might help to alleviate some of the dangers to the middle class caused by Republican policies, but the GOP's idea of bankruptcy reform is to say "Fukk You" to the middle class. Same with their love for insurance companies, credit card companies, banks, and corporate "farmers" who all get priority treatment, massive tax breaks, and who handfeed the GOP legislation thru their PAC's for the GOP hacks in the House to pass off as actual legislation.

You are a real piece of work if you believe that Republicans would do anything other than what they've done every time they've been in charge...make it worse for the middle class. Every time. Every single time.

Fish on...

Todd

And clearly playing to the "it's all Obama's fault!" emotions of your typical right wing reality-denier works for them...but not for thinking people.

Congratulations again on ignoring reality and justifying your hackship.

Fish on...

Todd

What's hurting the middle class is that it is disappearing, it's disappearing due to massive tax breaks for the rich that take money out of all of our pockets...including yours and virtually every other GOP voter, too...and gives ito the massively rich in the form of tax breaks.

Again, trickle down econmics...which causes the stock market, personal incomes, coporate incomes, the economy, and the GDP, to suffer...while pushing more and more people out of the middle class.

These are the policies you vote for, Hank, so if you really gave twoshits about the middle class then there's yet another reason to start embracing reality rather than what the GOP tells you is good for you.

As long as you believe that those in the top 1% have all the money because they are smarter or work harder, or that all the rest of us (including you) aren't "them" because you are too fuckin lazy and shiftless, then at least you get what you deserve...you voted for the assholes that say that.

The rest of us don't deserve it but screwed because 45% of Americans can't read simple charts or do five minutes of research to see just how badly they are being screwed by the people who they vote for.

If only there were less gay people, more guns, and all the brown people stayed in Mexico we wouldn't have these problems...it's their fault, theirs and the liberals! We're on your side...you know, the "real" Americans!

Yeah, right...only a fuckin idiot believes that.


Fish on...

Todd

jesus, relax and screw your girl and call it a night. you seem especially wound up.

Warning: sick, twisted, and generally poor metaphor to follow....

I think I've finally figured out why they use a donkey to symbolize the Democrats and an elephant to symbolize the Republicans. Seems they're both bending us over and having their way with us. Might as well vote Democrat, cuz a donkey dong does slightly less damage to one's rectum than an elephant's....

Actually, it seems pretty clear to me it's the elite and their puppet government against the rest of us, and as long as we keep believing it makes a difference which party owns the White House, the gap will continue to widen (along with our bungholes).

Perhaps the Americans are starting to pay attention and do their homework. Did you see the polls at the head of this thread?

Don't worry Hank, things will get a lot better under Clinton Part Dux.

Yuuup, with another liberal in the White-house Hank and I will be so stinking rich that we may be tempted to hire a staff of writers to post for us. If we do you may witness an improvement in the quality of our posts.

I should never have tied my cart to your wagon, please accept my apology for having done so.

Oh master of stylish prose interspersed with fact and mirth, and as you are truly a reminder to those in need of being reminded with great emphasis. -----------------------------------------------------------

Liberal dumfuks, yes someone is paying attention.

Is that the 45% that doesn't pay any federal income tax?

Todd seems to think 1 party has our best interest in mind. They don't. Both parties are only about votes and control and 1 of the parties is doing it slightly better than the other at the present time.

Listen to this guy play the "poor me" and "I'm one of the down-trodden" cards.........
J F C Toddler! As Shortstuff would say, "Tissue?"

You're a piece of work.

Did I hear something? Oh, closet door squeak ........ ho hum



<------------- recognize anyone in there?

If you think I'm the solution to your problem, you're lookin' in the wrong direction..........but you knew that.

edit: Note note below.......if that helps.

Todd will tell you what Todd thinks, because just like Hank you have no idea what Todd thinks, and Todd doesn't need you to speak for him.

Fish on...

Todd

Here's one thing that Todd doesn't just think, Todd knows:

If you vote GOP based on "the economy" than you might be the dumbest of the dumb dumfucks, because they are worse at every single aspect of the economy, every time, and always have been, and every single actual fact backs it up, not just right wing blowhard TV and their sycophants making up "facts" and pronouncements telling you how the GOP is so fiscally responsible.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd, I know that you are intelligent enough to reason beyond the chest beating and spin that you so often display here. So I have a few things for you to ponder.

1. In the period from 1945 through 2013, that's 69 years. The Democrats had control of all three branches of federal government for 22 of those years. While the Republicans had control of all three branches for 4 years.

2. In that same time span the Democrats had control of the majority of the branches for 47 years and the Republicans had control of the majority of the branches for 22 years.

So if you look at the chart that I have linked to here, http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/l/bl_party_division_2.htm You will see that much of your case for one party or the other causing either a good economy or a poor economy falls flat.

This will add even more perspective,
http://people.duke.edu/~charvey/country_risk/chronology/us-events.htm]

It seems to me to place either the blame on, or to give credit to one party or another based on simple chronology is simplistic at best. It would be more logical, to me to judge the party's on their merits, i.e. policies implemented, and the values espoused.

I also think that having a certain degree of change of the party that control of our governance is beneficial to our economy, and I am not the only one who thinks so.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w15400.pdf?new_window=1

I wouldn't expect you to read the entire piece but they lay out the premise on page 2 and start the conclusion on page 35.

You will see that they find a positive effect from occasional changes in the party in power to keep the economy operating efficiently. So perhaps you should be be thankful for the Republican party not just for its help in keeping the economy up and running, but for supplying you with a target.

My case not only does not fall flat, but is indisputable:

When there is a Democrat in the White House every single aspect of the economy performs better.

It's not just "chronological"...except by saying "during the times there is a Democrat in the White House every single aspect of the economy performs better".

I used to be thankful for the Republican Party because I believe that two competing policy modes are better for creating the best outcomes, but the GOP has become the party of clowns and fools over the past 12 years or so and perform virtually no function other than to create excellent material for late night TV.

They have had no original ideas about anything important whatsoever...the only halfass idea they've put up since the 90's was what has become Obamacare, only they call it "socialism" now because Obama did exactly what they wanted to do.

The GOP has become a joke, and my conservative friends...not that I did not say "Republicans", I said "conservative"...lament the current state of that clowshow more than anyone I know.

I don't lament it so much as I find it abominable, and a parody of anything resembling common sense.

Fish on...

Todd

The GOP let the TeaBaggers into the party because they needed the votes, rather than go after anything other than the fearful (gonna take my guns, and put us under Sharia law!) crowd or the moronic (Obama is a Nigerian Kenyan Socialist Marxist Nazi!) crowd...that's what they got.

They could try to do something...anything...sensible about:

1. the budget
2. immigration
3. voter rights
4. health care

...or any other of a multitude of issues to expand their tent...instead they circled the stupid wagons, and rather than try and make their tent bigger they try and keep people out of any tent at all.

The implosion has been in slow motion, but has been inevitable...and will continue on.

You guys go ahead and vote for those clowns...just try for one minute to be honest about who and what you are voting for:

1. a poor economy
2. a weaker middle class (mostly because of a poor economy)
3. blaming brown people
4. gonna grab our guns!
5. War on Christmas!
6. Telling women how they should act and how they should use their own bodies
7. Let's stop as many people from voting as possible

At least be honest...that's what you are voting for when you vote for the current rendition of the GOP.

Fish on...

Todd

Here's the GOP in a nutshell:

1. Supply Side Economics.

That's it. It's a wholesale "give the money to the rich" campaign, with no concurrent benefit to anyone on the "trickle down". It's never worked, and it won't work now, or in the future.

All the other issues are bullshite issues trumped up to get voters in the booth...guns, religion, abortion, immigration, whatever. Every single one of those issues is ginned up fear about someone or something that is taking what is yours, even when there is absolutely no truth to any of it at all.

The funny part is that there are plenty of right wingers out there who have been perfectly candid about that...they don't care about anything at all except getting them in the booth to vote for them, and they'll use any fear tactic they can gin up to get them in there...and then they'll make unbelievably stupid tax breaks for the rich, soak us all for all we're worth, and then blame it on someone else.

That's what the GOP has been for a long time, and currently is really staking down their position to continue being that for the foreseeable future.

You can continue to support that, and go down with the ship, or work to get that out of the GOP and get them to propose something...anything...that might actually benefit the country.

Good luck on both counts.

Fish on...

Todd

What...did you write the RNC Platform?

Or just plagarize it?

Fish on...

Todd

How about continually just making excellent comments like the last one, come up with some facts.

I've shown you pages of them to support exactly what I'm saying.

Show me something about how the GOP is good for the economy.

Show me something about how the Bush tax cuts for the rich were good for the economy.

Show me something about how those "job creators" that got zillions in tax dollars created any jobs.

Show me something about the GOP is good for the stock market.

Show me something about how GOP policies have helped personal incomes, corporate incomes, the GDP, the per capita GDP...jobs, economic growth.

Anything.

They'll have to be actual "facts", not right wing talking points.

Then we'll have something to talk about...until then you sound exactly like the fool you are...voting for a talking point instead reality, and supporting policies that directly contradict your stated goals.

Fish on...

Todd

How are all the facts I've posted "bullschit"...or do you mean you just don't like hearing about what a fuckin fool you are?

Fish on...

Todd

Hearing what? You've said nothing. You've just stuck your fingers in your ears, your head up your ass, and said nothing at all.

I know you don't like being reminded that you are a tool in the GOP propoganda machine, but you are.

They do nothing for you, for me, or for the country...but you just can't help but vote for them over and over and over again anyway.

Take solace in the fact, as I noted before, that you are not alone in voting against the well being of the country, the economy, and yourself.

You seem to think that, in spite of every single bit of evidence to the contrary, that voting GOP is good for the economy...that's why you said you vote for them, after all.

Surely you can come up with at least a few reason why, in spite of every single bit of evidence to the contrary, that you feel that way.

Fish on...

Todd

What you mean to say is...

"I got nuthin'"

You will not find any facts to support your unwavering support for the folly of voting GOP for "the economy".

I don't expect you to pull your head out of your ass and all of a sudden decide that the economy is more important than voting party line GOP no matter what, but I hope you at least remember what a clown you are being next cycle when you just take a Sharpie and mark right down the right side of the ballot top to bottom...

"For the economy".

Fish on...

Todd

So once again...you got nuthin'. Just remember that when you vote...you are voting for "nuthin'".

I hear stories about how there used to be right wing policies that helped the country...I've seen RNC platforms from "back in the day", and to be honest, they look an awful lot like the DNC platforms nowadays.

In my adult life these are the Republican administrations I've seen:

Ronald Reagan
Bush 1
Bush 2

With Reagan, the "right wing hero", there were much higher tax rates on the rich than there are now...and he's still a hero.

Of course he spent like a drunken sailor and nearly bankrupt the country.

Bush 1 was probably the best of the three, and raised taxes repeatedly, repeatedly enough while saying he wouldn't that he got himself un-elected.

We all know what an unmitigated disaster Bush 2 was...the horrific tax cuts that killed our economy wasn't enough, we had to go to Iraq and not only kill zillions of people, but do it by spending trillions of tax dollars, putting the directly into the pockets of the Military-Industrial complex. Apparently tax breaks weren't enough, we needed to just give away the money while killing lots of people, too.

None of what any of them did spurred any economic growth...they all tanked the economy...and I bet you gleefully voted for all of them...

"for the economy"

...too, didn't you?

Andy you'd do it again...wouldn't you?

It's ok to vote party line because it's like breathing for a right winger like you...just don't pretend you're doing it for "the economy"...you sound like the liars on FauxNews or in the RNC when you start parroting the bullshite they spew daily.

Fish on...

Todd

Better than what?

Todd much of the very information that you posted does not support the claims that you make. Have you read the information in the articles that contain your graphs? If so why do you make such silly claims?

My name is Todd welcome to revisionist history 101.
I hope that you will enjoy your time in my class.

Hank clearly can't do it, Rev...so how about you?

Show me your facts.

Show me how the economy performs better under Republican administrations.

Or the stock market. Or GDP.



Better than when Republican administrations are in the White House.

You can join Hank in saying absolutely nothing, if you like, or voting in direct opposition to the economy performing well while voting "for the economy"...or maybe you can come up with some facts that show how anything related to the economy is better under GOP administrations.

I've read a lot more than just the articles I've posted...I actually choose to make my vote count in favor of the goals I find important, so I've read up on what affects the economy the most positively, and what party promotes those policies, and I've voted accordingly.

Accordingly to facts, not talking points.

Fish on...

Todd

Have you ever considered JFK tax policy?

Todd you don't show any respect of facts. You seem to be the decider when it comes to "facts".

So like Hank, you got nuthin'.

Everything I've noted above about the economy are facts. They are numbers, not opinions, and are easily verfiable.

The fact that they don't support the talking points you vote for doesn't render them something else.

I didn't "decide" what the numbers are.

I did, however, decide to vote based on facts, rather than bullshite.

Fish on...

Todd

Have you missed me?
It'll be different this time, I promise.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/funnypictures/ig/Funny-Clinton-Pictures/Billary-Clinton.-18T.htm

And then on the other hand we have the peanut farmer.

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/economic-legacies

And least we should forget.

You really are going to counter pages and pages of facts with a memo from the Heritage Foundation, full of opinions that counter the heavy weight of facts?

That's why the GOP is sinking, and fast...that's what qualifies as "thought" from right wingers.

Do you really want to have a "fact" war over Reagan's maniacal spending?

How about the zillions his policies cost the country for decades after he was done with deregulating everything that went south and tanked our economy a few times since then?

Here are things that went up with Reagan:

1. Federal spending
2. Federal employment
3. The debt
4. Average unemployment rate
5. Income tax on the top 10%
6. Payroll taxes

Those are just a few items off the top of my head...there's plenty more, like wasting a zillion dollars on Star Wars, the rise in poverty and homelessness...not to mention a record high of administration officials convicted of felonies (he should have been, too, for the Iran-Contra scandal, which unlike the made up "treason" right wing fruitcakes like to talk about all the time actual was treason.)

Fish on...

Todd

Besides the fact that the "hero of Conservatism" couldn't even win a primary in rural Kentucky for a house seat now based on all of his policies, all the things mentioned above...stock market, personal income, corporate profits...were worse under his Republican administration.

Fish on...

Todd

It should not go unmentioned that your response has been predicted.

"Your response has been predicted."

Dood...it's a puff piece by the Heritage Foundation. If that qualifies as "facts" in your book it's no wonder why the GOP is floundering.

Did you see the list of Reagan's "accomplishments" I put up? Rejection of Reaganomics is in large part responsible for the beginning of the economic recovery under Bush 1 and fully implemented, very successfully, by Clinton.

Fish on...

Todd

It's funny that you bring up Mr. Bill. Yes he was successful leader once the Republicans took control of Congress and Pres. Clinton was forced to the right. Facts like these are why your chronological assessment of success and failure are so faulty

As far as President Reagan's accomplishments let's look at a few facts.
From the end of the Carter administration to the end of the Reagan administration, Economic Growth grew from 2.5% to 3.5%, and the Unemployment Rate declined from 7.65 to 5.3%, the inflation rate(CPI) declined from 8.9% to 4.6% and the Misery Index declined from +2.7% to -6.3%.

As always please feel free to pick your own poison.

Fuel for the fire.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...ting-a-new-low/